Clowne Community Association

Minutes of Meeting Date: 20th March 2013
Time: 7:00pm
Venue: Methodist Chapel meeting room
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Chair: Allan Bailey Notetaker: Greg Lindley Final minutes
  1. Apologies   Arthur Heap, Terry Richardson, Stephen Raison, Julie Robinson

Attendance was 39 people.

          PCSO were to attend but are engaged elsewhere on business.
          As usual the message is any sightings or worries RING 101 with any concerns.


  1.   We Say No Way Rob Swift, Ian Sykes, Steve Ponting

The proposed wind turbine off Mansfield Road has been moved closer to Clowne and more on top of the hill than previously proposed.   It is within ¾ of a mile of the Junior School. The original proposal was withdrawn and it is now re-submitted.
Planning Application  Reference 13/00053 FUL.
The weight of objections made against the application may help to raise concerns against the plans.
Wind turbines are a cash generator for companies building them due to the sudsidies. But they are difficult to argue as value for money given the costs of construction and over lifetime of them.
The We Say No Way group do not want them near to Clowne or Stanfree.
This is not just about how it affects us- it is also about where and how we live. The Limestone Ridge is an important local feature  and this is about what the area is like for the future. It is planned along Damsbrook Lane – in the field opposite the wood near the field where the model airplanes are flown. Talking to local politicians the Limestone Ridge should be protected. The group have spoken to Marie Smith from Creswell Crags.
Any help is requested – we should reinforce our efforts together. The group have regular meetings at Oxcroft Miners Welfare.
The new proposed wind turbines near the M18 junction will be huge and visually prominent. There are the  3 near Thorpe Salvin/Harthill, there are six near the M18 and 1 proposed at Van Dyks crossroads.
People need to object if they don’t want these turbines to happen.
The Palterton proposal was narrowly refused after a big local effort by objectors.
Also the Roseland Community Windfarm proposal- but it is not clear what the community benefit will be from this one - 6 are proposed at 125m high.
Also an application along Hollin Hill is submitted.
Allan Bailey has also spoken to Marie Smith from Creswell Crags centre.
The Magnesian Limestone Ridge is from the Permian period. English Heritage are teaching people about the Limestone Journey and the wind turbine proposals are going to destroy it.
It is important that we object if we don’t want it.
This would also be clos eto the new proposed Ben Bailey housing development.
Are they applying to get it before any Private Members Bill is submitted to Parliament and the Lords Bill which recommends 50-100 m high with a min. distance of 1500 metres from property?
Scotland, Norway, Holland and Canada all have a 2km minimum limit.
Clowne Parish Council have objected to the application.
The main national political parties are all generally in favour of wind farm technology
Also the risks of future maintenance liability and safety are not fully public- the real risk of wind turbine explosion was shown last year in the Scottish example. Caithness Windfarm Information Forum has data on accidents - Mrs Blacksmith handed over details.
The deadline for the application comments was 18 March but people can still submit objections.
Individual objections do count.
The developers are chancing their arm to see what they can get. The turbine proposed will be huge at 60.7m with 44m to the hub and a 33.4 m rotor blade.
See the website - – it has sample letters of objection on it.
Steve Ponting then spoke about Infrasound
Steve lives on Mansfield Road near the old mushroom farm site, he has previous military experience.
Infrasound is low frequency sound.
The wind turbine propellors produce noise, but they produce various types of noise.
Most of the jet aeroplane noise is the drag from the wings.
The concern is the sounds that you don’t hear .
It is dependent on the prevailing wind direction – which is from the south west.
So it will go over Clowne , Bolsover DC offices and the schools. It is a sound which doesn’t go away. It reduces house prices by 30% (figure agreed by District Valuer.)
There are documented cases where people have abandoned their homes as they cannot stand the noise and cannot sell their homes.
The human ear can hear noises at a hum which is down to 50 cycles per.sec./ Hz- possibly down to as low as 40/30.But the concern is levels below that down to 8-12 cycles per second- called infrasound. The military have used infrasound generation for crowd control purposes. It makes your body vibrate and creates pressure waves. Things vibrate when exposed to frequencies of sound. Everything has a resonant frequency at which it vibrates. The human body responds to 8-12 cycles per second, it makes the body- its organs- vibrate.
From the wind turbines it is caused when the blades pass the stanchions. They aim for 50 cycles per second. But, they also produce low frequency sound. It is not dangerous on short exposures. But, it is the continued non stop exposure to the low frequency sound which is a problem. It will and does make you ill. That is why a 2km limit is being set out internationally. Nausea headaches sickness lack of concentration and feeling confused are all symptoms, which is why the military use it as a weapon for crowd dispersal.
All of Mansfield Road , Ramper Avenue, The Arc High Street and The Schools are within the down-wind 2km effect area.
It is not yet recognised by the UK Government.
The UK will recognise it eventually. It will make some people very ill- it is not good for childrens’ development.   
          Question and Answer followed:-
          Q. Does it transfer through the ground as well as through the air. People in Cumbria were affected.
A. Sound travels through solid substances over long distances. There is a listening station monitoring geological movements worldwide. They have therefore objected to wind turbines near them as it will affect ground vibration measurements.
The group are not against wind turbines. They are against putting wind turbines next to people.
But, planning needs reasoning to be able to refuse it- something that will stand up in court- at an appeal.
Currently low frequency noise is not a valid reason to object.
The Head of Health and Safety at Bolsover DC says it is inappropriate to discuss it.
Regulation etsu r97 sets out noise limits that are acceptable. It gives guidance on what to consider when considering wind turbines. The turbine industry have lobbied and ensured that lower noise levels are accepted- a level above background noise.
It can also be louder at night than in the daytime. The effects on health of turbines have been well documented.
Feel that the company are trying to show that they have responded to previous objections. It is now further away from Stanfree- and now nearer the land settlement properties.
The group will write to the Head of Junior School to ask them to object. The group feel it will affect people at work - the Bolsover Council offices for instance and at local schools. They have distributed leaflets.
Mrs Thorpe noted that there are 450 objections against the Ben Bailey housing development proposal and people should be objecting against both proposals. We should be lobbying with MP’s that this is not the answer. Wind Farms will produce a tiny percentage of what we need in future – it won’t solve our energy problem.
Palterton was refused and there were objections because of the impact on local heritage use and so the Limestone Ridge is an issue for us to argue strongly.
Health and Safety seems to have been sidelined on this.
Ian Sykes reinforced the message about having your say. This is twice the height of the local electricity pylons. A 0.8mach speed of propellors is planned- roughly 400mph at tip- this speed is just sub-sonic.
The group were thanked for their presentation.

  1. Minutes from the previous meeting of 20 February 2013

Accepted as correct
Matters Arising:
Bellway Development -Church Street
Church Street is not being widened. Derbyshire CC will not finance it. They are dropping kerbs for 4 access points and putting in services. The closure was advertised in press as extending from March to August.
Agree to e mail Bellway and ask what is happening.
Constitution- Vice Chair position
Pat Thorpe has joined the Association Committee at the last Committee meeting. Under the Association Constitution we need to designate a Vice Chair and Pat Thorpe was nominated and has accepted the role.
The Association meeting noted the appointment.
Community Notice Board
Allan has spoken with Peter Sawdon in Bolsover DC Planning about our use of posters to advertise our meetings and the accusation of fly-posting and our need for a Community Notice Board.
His response was that community groups are allowed to put up notices 28 days before and 14 days after. So we are doing nothing wrong and as a non-political community organisation we can continue to advertise on street. There is still a feeling expressed by association members that we may benefit from having our own notice board. But we still may need planning permission anyway for such a notice board.

  1. Local Plan Strategy

Bolsover DC Planning Committee have approved, on 20 February, the Draft Local Plan Strategy for consultation and a timetable for moving towards formal adoption.  A note was produced for us by Bolsover DC for todays meeting but unfortunately has not been copied for circulation and  we will put information on the Association web site. Copy Letters are to follow soon from Bolsover DC to those who have registered as interested including an e mail circulation.
The local plan covers the next 30 years and allocates an additional 575 dwellings as needed in Clowne plus a series of other proposals including the allocation of the disused rail line as a Greenway. The Council will hold a public event in Clowne but will be unlikely to have capability to attend our public meetings if invited- although we can ask?
Greg Lindley proposed that the Association should look at the strategy and seek to set out our vision of what we would like to see for the future of Clowne alongside it- in a similar way to the original review undertaken at the start of the Association set up.
 Allan commented that the Parish Council Chair is minded to develop a Clowne plan and may possibly call a referendum- he has said they may move the town boundaries.

  1.  Ben Bailey- Mansfield Road Planning Application no:12/ 00259

They have sent apologies for not being able to attend tonights meeting. The planning application will not be going to Cttee mid April. But the developer has covered the hedgerows to stop birds from nesting in them presumably to allow any development that may be approved to progress and so they can remove or work near the hedges asap. It is suggested we get the picture into the local l / national press- blue polythene is pegged down over the hedges.
Landscapes said it is a protected hedge. But the developer didn’t put it up until March anyway- so it was already within the breeding season.
They are riding rough shod over legal restrictions and the Wildlife Act.
We hope that they will attend the next meeting in April


  1. Association Group Reports
  2. Clowne in Bloom

Planting up of the flower tubs will be planned for May. Plants are being provided through Duggie Peck with our thanks. Any contributions of shrubs or bulbs are welcomed.
Well Dressing this year has been brought forward to 22 June from the previous date of 20 July.
On 22 June the Well Dressing group have agreed to join in with an event being organised at Bolsover DC Offices, The Arc, High Street. This will be a demonstration day and hands on opportunity as part of  a rural themed event- Limestone Journeys involvement.
A Jubilee Tree has been planted on Mill Green Way at the end of 2012 to mark the 60th Jubilee of HM Queen Elizabeth 11. Photo to be sent off acknowledging.
Cliff Hill – more bulbs have been planted and are showing through.

  1. Access Group

Iaian Stafford, Derbyshire CC Ranger, has met with the group and done a walkover of The Monnies/Golf Course edge footpath and the disused rail line.
3. History Group ( not part of Association)
    The History Society has also been invited to the Bolsover DC event on 22 June. Their next major item is August 2014 - planning for a 100 Year Anniversary of the outbreak of WW1. This will be discussed at the next History meeting.

  1. Any Other Business
  2. A petition on Public Transport will be submitted to Cllr Anne Western within the week.
  3. Community Action Derby- Cheap Energy Together

This aims to harness the purchasing power of organisations together. Communities can buy energy as a group cheaper than individuals can. So by joining in we could get cheaper energy bills.
0800 888 6611
Community Action, 4 Charnwood Street, Derby DE1 2GT
Tel 01332 346266

  1. The Raffle and Drinks contributions raised £26 and £18.26.

          The Chair thanked everyone for their contributions.

  1.  Next Meetings -  for 2013

Main meeting Dates-  May 22 ( note later changed to 15th), July 24, September 18,
                                        November 20.
          Committee Dates-  May 1, July 3, September 4, November 6.